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  • July 3, 2018 at 4:06 pm #4193
    SALLY GREENBERG
    Member

    Hi,
    I have a 10 year old who shows very high Clostridia markers on OA test and all the classic behavior problems that go with it. I am giving liposalmal biociden 3x day, freeze dried garlic 2x and 4-6 culturalla. She also has lyme babesia and seizures.
    Three weeks in she is still showing sings of die off with the protocol, increased self injurious and violent behavior but no reprieve and she is still having diarrhea many days a week as is usual. How do I know if were making progress besides repeating the OAT? When do I know vanco is a better way to go….or is it?
    Thank you
    Sally

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    • July 3, 2018 at 7:56 pm #4195
      DrWoeller
      Keymaster

      Sally,
      The Lyme can definitely be an interfering problem and the seizures too.

      If I am seeing violent behavior and self-injury still after this long I would be inclined to try vancomycin.

      I would also recommend giving some GI Detox from BioBotanical Research – https://biobotanicalresearch.com – at least one capsule twice daily between meals. This can be used whether you are using botanicals or antibiotics.

      Also, is this child constipated?

      Was anything else high in the OAT? oxalate, HVA, etc.?

      Sincerely,
      Dr. Woeller

    • July 4, 2018 at 2:33 pm #4205
      SALLY GREENBERG
      Member

      Thank you!
      HVA is 3.0 nomral
      Aconitic low 7.2
      DHPPA 2.1 high
      HPHPA 772 high
      4-Cersol 2.6 normal
      Oxalate normal
      She has never been constipated in her life… since this all started at 2 1/2 she has had diarrhea and undigested food a few times a week. When she was 4yo she took flagyl for 10 days (the ER gave it to her for Blastosis Homonis infection) and all symptems went away during the 10 day course but came back with vengeance once the round was finished (we did not know about clostridia at that time but looking back I think that it was a problem). I wonder if pulsing the vanco would be better in her case or if it makes no difference? Or do you think the natural method will work eventually? I prefer no antibiotics I just dont want to rule them out if its possible for her to get better neurological function which she desperately needs.

    • July 5, 2018 at 11:19 am #4212
      DrWoeller
      Keymaster

      Sally,
      That HPHPA level is quite high. Interesting that the HVA is normal. It is typically elevated when either 4-cresol or HPHPA is high.

      I think the pulsing of Vanco is a good idea. It’s one of those antibiotics that could even be used one day “on” and one day “off”. There is a lot of ways of using it, but cycling the dose usually seems to work out best.

      The Biocidin being cycled usually works. This is where Biocidin is taken daily for 14 days straight, then cycled for an addtiional 4 to 6 weeks with a “treatment day” done every 72 hours. I am not sure how long you have been on the Biodicin, but based on the aggression and no reduction so far with the Biocidin I might lean towards the Vanco at this point.

      You mentioned this all started at 2-1/2 years of age. What were the events at that time? Any suspicion of inflammatory bowel problems?

      Dr. Woeller

    • July 5, 2018 at 6:13 pm #4215
      SALLY GREENBERG
      Member

      Then there were inflammatory bowl problems there is no indication of inflammation in her gut on stool tests now, but clearly inflammation is at play here. She does have a SACDs gene that the doctors say is asymptomatic related to short chained fatty acids. Looking back there was no one event I can pinpoint just a series of strange health issues. At age 2 when her neuro-typical brother was born she was not gaining weight and the doctor told me failure to thrive usually she is in the 90th percentile for growth. I think she contracted lyme at that time and I know heavy metals, parasites were at play then. We had traveled to South America many times before she was 2.
      How should I ask her doctor to write the Vanc prescription to pulse? she is 100lbs

    • July 5, 2018 at 8:24 pm #4217
      DrWoeller
      Keymaster

      Sally,
      I would suggest the following:

      -Vancocin (oral) – 250mg three times daily for 10 days, then
      -Vancocin (oral) – 250mg three times for one day, done every 72 hours x 3 weeks.

      Repeat a Microbial Organic Acids Test (mOAT) during the last week of Vanco use.

      Also, its not a bad idea to use antifungal like Nystatin or at least some botanicals, i.e. continue Biocidin.

      If your doctor is not comfortable with the above dosing schedule for Vanco, then another option is to do a treatment day (Vanco 250mg three times in a day) done every other day for 6 weeks.

      Sincerely

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